2080 Discussion thread

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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Alexios Komnenos on 2008-02-25, 14:56

Sel, I'm waiting till you post the attack on Finland before posting again, as little of note will happen until then. I suppose I could make another battle scene between Murmansk Sunset and the E.U. on the front, if we need a filler.
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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Aeraaa on 2008-02-25, 15:00

Well you've said that the offensive in Romania will be operated, despite the risk of it being revealed by commander Smirnov...
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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Seleukos of Olympia on 2008-02-25, 15:03

First I'm thinking of making a post about Malta, and then Finland. So one post at around May 10-12 and another at around May 24-26.

It's May 2 now, and I was hoping that Red and Kasey would bring their characters up to speed, so that we can have some real-time diplomacy, like we do between the EU, Russia and the Caliphate.

I've been quite busy up until today, and I don't know how things will be tomorrow, but I'll try to get a post about Malta ready within the next days.

And Aeraaa has got a point. There's the whole Romanian attack and Corps Commander Smirnov subplot.

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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Raja Sagan the Caker on 2008-02-25, 15:07

i can't think of anything to post Sad

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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Seleukos of Olympia on 2008-02-25, 15:10

If your character has a speech to make in Malta, or anything important or amusing to say, send me a PM and I can write a post about the conference. Also any sketches or detailed descriptions of the participants would be appreciated.

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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Alexios Komnenos on 2008-02-25, 15:20

Yes. I was going to do something on that, Areaaa, PM me with what you want him to reveal.

Second off, the assault was called off, because Smirnov was captured. I said it would take a few weeks to re-arrange the Russian army for a new offensive.
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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Raja Sagan the Caker on 2008-02-25, 16:06

k sel, ill get on that now Smile

and i cleaned up the EU/Russia/Caliphate map to make it look nicer, and i added Saratovgrad Very Happy

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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Alexios Komnenos on 2008-02-25, 16:09

It's even more beautiful now that the largest city in Russia is on it!
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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Seleukos of Olympia on 2008-02-25, 16:09

Yay! Very Happy

(But you've still got some of my islands)

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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Raja Sagan the Caker on 2008-02-25, 16:10

i rather think we took them during the 'incident' awhile back... Wink

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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Seleukos of Olympia on 2008-02-25, 16:15

Fair enough... Although they weren't a part of Turkey, so it would require a confrontation (however minor) with the EU to take them.

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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Alexios Komnenos on 2008-02-25, 16:18

Or, when Caliphate boats waltzed through there, and the E.U. couldn't send any aid, they just simply rolled over?
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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Seleukos of Olympia on 2008-02-25, 16:20

Possible.

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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Raja Sagan the Caker on 2008-02-28, 22:05

Oh no! the 2080 story thread has dipped all the way down to second last!!

anyways, i wasn't exactly sure how this story would continue, but i was thinking of introducing a major new element at some point - of course it would require agreement from everyone because it is quite big. nor have i worked out where it might happen - preferably in the old world somewhere.

the original idea came to me after watching a documentary on the third reich. i realized that all of the states/factions in 2080 were based on fairly typical/mundane precepts: the PSSC is based around extremist capitalism, the UN on megalomania, the Caliphate on religious fervour, the OSPC on economic hegemony, the EU preserves democracy, and Murmansk Sunset is apparently based on megalomania too (although the case could be made that it's aim is simply global annihilation). however, none of these states are based around the creation of 'utopia'; perhaps some of them aim for it in their own particular ways, but none of them are based around the building of a utopian state for all (or most) citizens.

i think it could be interesting if a faction rose up whose aim was to implement the dream of utopia, the details of this 'utopia' could, of course, be worked out afterwords. because the world seems such a hellish place, it would likely - at first anyways - gather quite a large amount of popular support. afterwards it would turn, or would be revealed to be much darker than thought and it would have expansionist hopes - similar, but i hope not directly linked to those of nazi germany, it could become a predatory utopian state. conversely there could be calls from external peoples that this state 'liberate' them.

the location of this state/faction would be, preferably, somewhere in western eurasia and would start as a type of political or grassroots uprising built around a personality cult. i think that we should resolve the conflict between the EU and Russia before this faction fully develops and becomes expansionistic - plunging an exhausted region into war.

i will flesh the idea out further, but i just thought that it would create a more ideologically driven intensity to the storyline. i am perfectly willing to give up Iran for this as i was planning on having it break away at some point anyways - and indeed the Aryan parallels with nazi germany make it a more than ideal candidate.

any thoughts?

also, you might wonder why a documentary on the third reich might lead me to the idea of a utopian state, however the ideals of the nazi regime really were to create a pure and perfect utopian state - although the methods they used to go about doing this (and certain of the ideals themselves) were despicable and this is the side that is often remembered by the west. hitler brought more than just economic well-being to the german volk. the story of wwii becomes more interesting - and dramatic - when it is not viewed as a fight against simple evil, but as a fight against a twisted utopian/dystopian dream, imo.

lastly, how are the olympics going to be handled? as, by my rough calculations, 2080 CE will be the year of the XXXXVII Olympiad (47th - summer), and i think that someone will have tried to continue them. of course, it isn't vital to the story, i just wondered if they still went on Smile.

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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Alexios Komnenos on 2008-02-29, 04:18

I doubt the Olympics would be held in this day and age.

For the sake of the story, Sel can lauch his attack and have the Malta conference. Otherwise, the story will stagnate, and we shouldn't care about a strict timeline, so long as nobody objects.

The idea of a utopian state is a good one (remeber, Murmansk Sunset's dream was a utopia - they would make it by killing all but two million people who shared their views, creating a peaceful, utopian state.)

Murmansk Sunset isn't based around Nikoli's meglomania - he's not that type of guy - invision more an ordinary guy plunged into a position of power all of a sudden at a pretty young age (20's)

I personally think that a good place for this would be Aussieville - say they score a massive victory against the Chinese and push onwards towards the mainland after several states such as Tailand defect.

Or Iran. But where would they expand? They could tear apart china and advance into the Caliphate, and india I guess. Or the U.S. could beat the U.N. and try to establish a utopian dream state.

We'd need a person who was willing to devote a large amount of time to them and their background.
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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Raja Sagan the Caker on 2008-02-29, 05:06

yes, i vaguely remembered that was the original goal of Murmansk Sunset, but that's hardly it's current goal - tbh honest, aside from domination of E Europe, i don't really know what Russia's long-term goal/cause is.

i'd be willing to put a lot of work into it Smile!

Aussieville is a poor candidate for several reasons, imo: (a) it's population is much too small to pose a serious threat to the OSPC, let alone defeat them and cause them to retreat out of Indonesia/SE Asia; and (b) it's a little isolated - hardly the geographical location from which to lash out and cause untold harm.

Iran works for several reasons, (a) it's an economic centre within the middle east, (b) it's location threatens several major players - and players with 'controllers' as opposed to the OSPC, (c) it will weaken the Caliphate considerably, (d) it has a rich cultural history and a 'golden age' which it can look back to, (e) a parallel with german nazism due to it's aryan population.

Iran would demand first to have hegemony over the Iranian peoples, so would soon take parts of the surrounding provinces. Then it could attack north into Russia, west into the Caliphate - and then maybe to EU, and east into Pakistan and then India. It's unlikely that they would advance into China, although they could seek assitance from them.

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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Seleukos of Olympia on 2008-02-29, 05:13

Sorry for the delay. I've been more busy than ever this past week. I'll try to write the Malta description tonight (I've already started on it a few days ago) and move on to plan the attack on Finland.

What about India? It's far away from the center of government of the UN, has a rich and varied history and mythology to inspire utopian idealists and its people are desolate enough to rally behind such ideals.
I like the idea of Iran too.


Last edited by Seleukos of Olympia on 2008-02-29, 06:22; edited 1 time in total

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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Aeraaa on 2008-02-29, 05:28

The utopia that turns into a nightmare has been done. I think Murmansk Sunset is what we're talking about. However, if you like another nation put into act, it's OK, actually is good to have more factions into the game
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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Raja Sagan the Caker on 2008-02-29, 06:06

hmmm, well perhaps at first Murmansk Sunset hoped to create a utopia, but that was way back before Orange Death and so outside of the scope of the actual story - and i'm not even sure utopia was ever actually attempted Russia or if that idea had been dropped long before (i, personally, was only vaguely aware of this initial aim).

additionally, it isn't apparent that Murmansk Sunset is attempting to implement a utopia at the moment, or that it's ultimate aims are still to establish a utopian hegemony (tbh, i really don't know what the driving force is behind Murmansk Sunset and this E European war).

for me this state would have a lot more of an internal storyline, and a purpose. i think it was a dreadful mistake to have the Caliphate already firmly established by 2080... Sad

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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Alexios Komnenos on 2008-02-29, 13:23

A little history:

The Saratov family, up until the failure of the Orange Death to be 100% fatal or to infect everybody, as it appeared it might (the creation of a vaccine and the quarentine procedures caused it to fail.) were aiming for a utopia. That was the end goal: the two million uninfected would have created a utopian civilization.

It failed. The E.U., however, managed to identify a shadowy terrorist regime known as Murmansk Sunset (the Saratovs) as the ones who released the Orange Death and as the ones controlling most of the governments in the former Warsaw Pact. (Minus Germany, Poland, and the Balkans) They invaded. The rest I've told you. I made a history of Murmansk Sunset post, it starts off with a Russian in a Chinese nightclub.

I think a join Indian-Iranian thing would be the best. A fervor of utopianism could infect India, and spread to Iran. A more militant Gandi-type could rise to power and invade South Asia, which is tied up with the Aussies, and overrun it with both a stream of soldiers touting rightous ideas.

The utopian dream could be:
1 Socialist freedom made possible by machines
2 Democracy (no nation is currently democratic - the E.U. has the best democratic system of all - the legislative branch is nominally democratic - but the head of state holds the real power, and the heads of wealthy corporations put him in his place.)
3 The abolishment of religion replaced by respect to country and a sort of inner peace
4 A group ideal - "We are all one"
5 Freedom for all, so long as it meshes with the above concepts
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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Raja Sagan the Caker on 2008-02-29, 15:34

well, i shall develop some type of storyline and flesh out the details of this faction. certainly a socialist dream is a must, secularism too will be implemented - i'm not sure yet about the democracy and the freedom for all though as this state wouldn't aim to be all-inclusive and would end up being dystopic.

i think it would be best if it spread from Iran to India, for these reasons; firstly i'm not exactly sure what 'utopian fervour' is, secondly india has way too many problems to become a powerful state within a short period of time, and the vast proportion of the population is illiterate and non-utilizeable.

i think that it should develop first in Iran, then it would invade India to 'liberate' the aryan population of that country - perhaps turning the lower castes into semi-servile labour. anti-semitism would not be a part of it's policy of course (although if it was they could launch a campaign of extermination into the Caliphate).

also, i re-read that post that you're referring to alexios and i didn't really see any evidence of attempted utopia building in russia or eastern europe - merely that there had been a decades long history of antagonism that resulted in untold destruction with little benefit to anyone.

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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Alexios Komnenos on 2008-03-01, 04:51

Raja - you're not getting it - there is no utopia building in the first part of the operation. 2 million people are vaccinated. The rest are supposed to die of the plauge, failing that, Murmansk Sunset will use it's hold on Eastern Europe to initate a world genocide on the weakened coutries.

Hardly utopia building in the classic sense, but that was the final goal, to rebuild out of the chaos they caused.

Btw, Raja - not "We are all one" in the classic sense of the term, but as a type of self-obliteration for the common good i.e- sacrificing all your property and self for the ideals of the cause

The freedom stuff can go.

I like your idea. Perhaps we should try to find a person to "play" the faction as it's head, rather than we all making it.

For the "utopian fervor" I thought of zealousness like in the explosion of islam, a fanatical belief that this was the right way.
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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Raja Sagan the Caker on 2008-03-01, 04:56

Sad

(i'll do it, i really want to! in fact i made it up so that i could do it...)

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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Seleukos of Olympia on 2008-03-01, 06:08

Maybe you could hand over the reins to the caliphate to Sipa. He's been interested in it since the beginning. Then you can wreck his caliphate by launching your revolution in Iran. Very Happy

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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Raja Sagan the Caker on 2008-03-01, 06:13

if he's willing i wouldn't mind at some point in the future...

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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Alexios Komnenos on 2008-03-01, 07:39

Sounds good then - Sel, can you please move along the storyline with Malta posts?
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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Kasey on 2008-03-01, 08:06

right, I have a post in the making.....so im gonna post the part that deals with the EU NOW as it is the most required part.
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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Seleukos of Olympia on 2008-03-01, 13:16

I got tired writing this (and drawing the accompanying picture) so it's not as complete as I'd like. Perhaps I'll add a speech from the Caliph and additional commentary in the end some other day.

The people in the picture are, from left to right, Boris Rodchenko, Carl Hafner, Pierre Langevin, Telma Agostinho, Caliph Mustafa II and minister of war Halil. Due to the cartoonish style of the picture (I suck at drawing people) they all look younger than they are.

Kasey, what is the date of your post? I'll write a reaction post when the news reach Europe.

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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Alexios Komnenos on 2008-03-01, 13:38

Love the picture, Sel! Although it's not exactly the same as the tone of the story, it's fun to see pictures!

Good post. I await your invasions in Finland.
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Re: 2080 Discussion thread

Post by Seleukos of Olympia on 2008-03-01, 13:46

Thanks. I meant to make the picture more realistic and serious, but my own limited drawing skills altered my plans for me.

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